Disc 1 Track 04. Continuation of Gil Johnston to Ricky Schwartz, to Ian Mattoch.


Disc 1 Track 04. Continuation of Gil Johnston to Ricky Schwartz, to Ian Mattoch.


Disc 1


Series 1: Memorabilia
Oral History/Testimony - A Law School for Hawaii






Hawaii State Judiciary Committee


Gil Johnston, Ricky Schwartz, and Ian Mattoch


Disc 01: Track 04

Gil Johnston:

0:01-0:05 The trial court, the high court divides itself into trial level.

0:05-0:12 Sitting, the judges sitting individually and an appeals division with courts sitting in bank.

0:14-0:32 It is in this level that you basically have the commercial law or the trustee law be applied into this United States law on that level and seldom the customary traditional law that exist in the lower courts.

0:34-0:47 Now the major legal problems usually involved the regular problems of people living in the society on the lowest level.

0:48-0:57 And then they go into the area particularly today of the problems of administrative law and the ever-increasing area of commercial law.

0:59-1:10 Not unusual they are also having increasing number of problems of juvenile law, questions of civil rights being raised there, uh, at this time.

1:12-1:24 Now, the legal system in order to work usually, uh, looks to lawyers, at least in any formalized legal system.

1:25-1:31 And at this time, there is a great scarcity of lawyers throughout Micronesia.

1:33-1:37 The, uh, attorney general's office there has several lawyers.

1:38-1:44 Um, the Congress of Micronesia has one lawyer as-- as an administrative assistance.

1:44-1:50 There's a public defender's office with a flux of lawyers coming and going, there are a few however.

1:50-1:54 There is one full-time attorney who private practice in Micronesia.

1:56-2:07 Uh, and, uh, there are some Peace Corps attorneys whose activities are closely restricted to, uh-- to, uh, aiding the administrative agencies down there.

2:08-2:17 Uh, there are approximately two, I'm not sure if it's two or three, lawyer who are Micronesian background.

2:18-2:35 Now with this particular, uh, background, uh, the question then becomes what relation would a University of Hawaii Law School have in this particular, uh, particular area of the world.

2:36-2:43 It would seem that, uh, that there are several things possible in this area.

2:45-3:06 To start off with, it would seem, that if the University of Hawaii and the East-West Center, uh, in cooperation of course with the United States Government, is interested in developing, uh, some sort of protection, legal protection, of the people in Micronesia.

3:06-3:20 There could be a start of some sort of immediate investigation and an exposition of the traditional customary law where this applied and developed in the lower and intermediary courts.

3:21-3:40 There could also be an investigation and exposition of the international U.S. law that this apply in the high court and also how it would affect the projected or expected social and economic development that is now underway.

3:41-3:47 And these studies could be carried out immediately under the auspices of the East-West Center.

3:48-4:04 Uh, and there you could have your basis of-- of using the members of these study groups as potential faculty members, and also source material for the undergraduate law school.

4:05-4:24 In addition to that, assuming that we do have a law school that is active and moving, uh, there is no reason why the law school could not provide many of the clinical services to Micronesia, that are applied usually in the major urban areas where there are law schools.

4:25-4:45 For example, Harvard has, among others, their, uh-- their, uh, committee on law and education; Georgetown, their, uh, council on criminal law and procedure; Boston College, uh, the national law-- national consumer law center; and it goes on and on this way.

4:46-5:00 There's no reason why the university couldn't have some sort of clinical programs servicing Micronesia,making use of their faculty and their students, in conjunction with the Bar Association that presently exist in Hawaii.

5:02-5:14 The-- some of the immediate suggestions could be done is that, uh, it could assist the professional staff of the various courts.

5:15-5:22 And it could also pave the various legislative and administrative agencies that created and administered the law there.

5:22-5:32 It could also provide services for the people in Micronesia in their day-to-day problems, uh, looking again to their traditions or customs.

5:34-5:57 And finally, it could also-- could also develop a system of trying to educate the people of Micronesia as to their rights under an expanding economy because absent education in this area, people never know what their existing rights are and are often denied what is their due under the law.

5:58-6:06 Uh, I would think that, uh, these suggestions are just very basic rough outline of what would happen.

6:07-6:17 And I would imagine if any such program were to develop that it would develop, uh, it would refine itself and develop further, uh, thoughts along the way.

6:18-6:23 And I think that this will be the real value, uh, of helping the people of Micronesia.

Ricky Schwartz:

6:36-6:53 The, uh, law school has to service-- has to provide service and provide utility not only to its students but as you've already seen, uh, to a substantial segment of other people from other walks of life.

6:55-7:11 Um, Ian Mattoch, who is a member of the committee, uh, has undertaken some, uh, investigation of the problems that might exist with an existing institution, which now services the legislature.

7:12-7:41 Uh, it was our feeling that a law school could be a great help in providing the legislature and the government of Hawaii, uh, with research and with background in methods for the preparation of sound approaches to the solution of-- of the problems that we now have and that we're going to have are growing urban problems are poverty problems, problems which require a good deal of imagination, a good deal of background work.

7:42-7:53 Uh, Ian is a-- also a-- a local boy. He was born and raised here. He went to law school at Northwestern and graduated from there in 1968.

7:54-7:57 He, like John Channon, is with Cades,Schutte, Fleming and Wright.

7:58-8:05 Uh, He is now editor and chief of the Hawaii Bar Journal and has done an interesting thing.

8:06-8:15 Uh, he went to Punahou School and convinced them that they ought to let him teach a course in law to high school students.

8:16-8:23 He developed a course called Law and Modern Society, which he is now teaching there, uh, to seniors.

8:24-8:29 And which I understand, uh, is meeting with a very great acceptance on their part.

8:30-8:31 I'm-- I'm very excited by this.

8:31-8:32 I've longed felt it.

8:33-8:39 Law, the background, the bases of law to be taught not only in high school but much more thoroughly in colleges.

8:39-8:44 That should be a part of every liberal arts education and I'm glad to see that we're getting somewhere with the idea.

8:45-8:50 And I give you now, Ian Mattoch, uh, to talk to you about the legislative reference bureau and the law school.

Ian Mattoch:

8:55-8:57 Thank you Rick.

8:58-9:14 Um, as the prospective law students sitting in this audience probably know now, uh, for those of you, who had legal education, you know, a law student begins his career by what is known as briefing cases.

9:14-9:20 This involves making a skeleton outline of each case that you're assigned to read in law school.


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“Disc 1 Track 04. Continuation of Gil Johnston to Ricky Schwartz, to Ian Mattoch.,” The Archival Collections at the University of Hawaiʻi School of Law Library, accessed February 28, 2024, http://archives.law.hawaii.edu/items/show/19349.