Disc 1 Track 02. Continuation of Ricky Schwartz testimony to John Channon.


Disc 1 Track 02. Continuation of Ricky Schwartz testimony to John Channon.


Disc 1


Series 1: Memorabilia
Oral History/Testimony - A Law School for Hawaii






Hawaii State Judiciary Committee


Ricky Schwartz and John Channon


Disc 01 Track 02

Ricky Schwartz:

0:00-0:17 It seemed pretty clear that the bar generally was convinced that the need had been demonstrated, the need was indeed is very clear in Hawaii and that the real question was the same old question, can it be a topnotch institution?

0:17-0:25 So the committee instead of addressing itself to the question whether, got itself involved initially in the question how.

0:26-0:27 How would we go about this?

0:27-0:36 What can we do at this stage of the thing to help that law school become a top notch place?

0:38-0:47 And what can we do to help that law school serve the need to this community, which maybe somewhat different from the needs of other communities across the country?

0:51-0:53 To this end, we sat down.

0:53-0:58 We tried to analyze what kind of function we could perform that would help in this way.

0:59-1:07 One thing became clear very quickly, and that is that if you're gonna have a first-rate institution, you've got to have first-rate students at that institution.

1:09-1:16 And if you have first-rate students, you must continue your search, which are more likely to get first-rate professors.

1:18-1:20 Therefore, our search began to narrow down.

1:21-1:27 We had to decide what we can do to help a new dean, to help a new law school, that do things that would attract topnotch people.

1:29-1:38 Our feeling was that we could serve best by exploring some programs, predominantly extracurricular programs, that law school could get involved in.

1:39-1:59 Which would either take advantage of Hawaii’s unique geographical location, Hawaii’s unique ethnic make up, or which would serve peculiar needs of this community that we know of but that a new dean or new people that are coming in from academic institution elsewhere might not be immediately aware of.

2:01-2:08 And so the members of the committee, most of them young, most of them topnotch, well-trained lawyers in practice in the community.

2:09-2:19 Each got to work on a separate kind of program, which we had sat down and decided it might be the kind of program the law school should or would want to get itself involved in.

2:19-2:21 I brought a number of these people here this morning.

2:22-2:29 And they've, given their time to come and speak to you for just a few minutes each, on the kind of thing that they are looking into.

2:30-2:35 I have to tell you before we start that none of us had been working on this aspect of it very long.

2:36-2:37 These talks are not…

(Note: audio was cut out from 2:37 to 2:40)

2:40-2:44 ...our talks in detail of programs that are finished.

2:45-2:50 Obviously the final decision in any event of these programs has to go to the people who run the law school once it's started.

2:51-3:02 But we had hope that we would have, by the time they get here, at least the bare bones, the outlines of a program, and the background of a program, so that they will not have to start from scratch.

3:03-3:12 With all of that, I'd like to introduce several of the committee members to you, Who will talk to you for a few moments on the areas, in which they are most involved.

3:15-3:22 I think first I would introduce you to Mr. John Channon, who was, who hails from Philadelphia initially.

3:23-3:28 Did his undergraduate work at Temple and then graduated from the University of Pennsylvania Law School in 1964.

3:28-3:34 Mr. Channon is a lawyer practicing here with the firm of Cage, Shutty, Fleming and Wright.

3:35-3:42 He does a good deal of lecturing and article writing on the subject of commercial law.

3:43-3:48 That's not the area he practices in, but it is the area he teaches in and the area he writes in.

3:49-3:58 He's been a great help to the bar here in keeping us apprised of new developments in commercial law field is changing very rapidly.

3:59-4:05 And he's been very active in the process of continuing the legal education of practicing lawyers here.

Mr. Channon.


John Channon:

4:15-4:21 I didn't realize that had this entire remote control system here, right in front of me and I hope it doesn't explode.

4:25-4:28 First, I wanna thank Rick for the most kind introduction.

4:29-4:35 This always reminds me as a lawyer of the marvelous story that some of you may have heard about,The Great Mark Twain.

4:36-4:42 Who aside from being a marvelous writer was also quite a lecturer in his own right.

4:44-4:48 And one time he was asked to give, while he was on the [inaudible] circuit, he was asked to give a speech as an after dinner speaker.

4:49-4:52 And the person who was supposed to introduce him happened to be a lawyer.

4:53-5:00 And this lawyer got up and thrust his hands into his pockets and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce to you Mr. Mark Twain.

5:01-5:03 A humorist, who is really funny."

5:04-5:14 Well, this was probably one of the worst introductions Twain could possibly have ever had, and he didn't know quite how to respond, but finally he stood and he said, "Ladies and gentlemen, yes I am indeed Mr. Mark Twain.

5:16-5:25 And you may consider me a humorist, who is really funny. As a matter of fact, that's almost as rare as an attorney who keeps his hands in his own pockets."

5:27-5:49 Well, after that introduction, I usually begin my lecture on this new federal truth in lending law, but today I'm here to talk to you about an area is of great concern to me as it relates to the law school and that's the proposed inter relationship between the law school and the legal community, as it now exists.

5:50-5:57 There were some obvious things that seems to me about the advantages of a law school and any legal..and its impact on any legal community.

5:58-6:01 First of all, the very fact that you have a faculty.

6:01-6:07 A faculty with areas of expertise, with the the legal community can draw upon as general matter.

6:08-6:25 The fact that you have law students, both available in terms of some of the programs that are instituted like the Legal Aid Society, a public defender types of programs, you have sources of talent to tap with regard to these types of programs it seems to me from a law school.

6:26-6:36 You obviously have the law school physical plan, including the library, and those of with a familiarity of the law know that this is certainly one of the most important areas that-- that we have to consider.

6:37-6:40 The physical plan, the library facilities.

6:41-6:48 Another area perhaps not quite so obvious is the area of continuing legal education for attorneys.

6:49-6:As Rick suggested to you, there are many many areas of the law that are in constant states of change.

6:54-7:06 Some faster than others, and when I came here in 1964 for example, very few people had considered too much about a body of the law named called the uniform commercial code.

7:07-7:14 This is a revolutionary area of law that substantially changes the law in most areas relating to commercial practice.

7:15-7:21 One attorney told me once it was enacted that effectively it had wiped out about 1/3 of his entire legal training.

7:22-7:30 These are the kinds of thing, of course he thought it was a plot by the young lawyers getting their thing adopted by the legislature, but in any effect, these are the kinds of changes that take place.

7:31-7:38 Your education really begins in many respects after you're out of law school because this is when you address yourself to the-- to the practice of law.

7:39-7:52 And this when you have to really, if you're going to remain, uh, faithful to your clients and do them the best service that you possibly can, you're gonna have to keep abreast of all the changes in your areas of law.

7:53-7:59 This is why the Bar Association has established a standing committee on continuing legal education of the Bar.

8:01-8:02 Maybe a bit of history would be in order.

8:03-8:29 My understanding is that when-- when we first had the program on continuing legal education, it amounted to little more than, if you happen to get wind of the fact that a lawyer was passing through town, who had, um, some degree of expertise, or he was taking his vacation in Hawaii, you called him at his hotel, and quickly set-up a luncheon, and you tried to get as many attorneys as you possibly could to go down and listen to this guy ramble on for an hour or so.

8:29-8:34 Well this quickly change into a much more sophisticated, much more organized program.

8:35-8:47 Up until this past year, for example, we've had programs six and seven in number during the year including some extremely sophisticated, I think quite outstanding program.

8:47-9:00 Several years ago, on the commercial coded stuff, we had professors Hoggin and Penny from Cornell, who are two outstanding experts, give a series of lectures for 4 days to the general membership of the Bar, in the area of continuing legal education.

9:01-9:04 Well now we're taking the next step and this where we get to this area and the law school.

9:05-9:16 As of this year, we have established a relationship between the Bar Association’s continuing legal education program and the Department of General Studies at the University.

9:16-9:21 And we feel that this going to be the forerunner, hopefully if there is a law school.

9:21-9:29 Between an even much more solidified relationship between continuing legal education and a law school.


9 minutes 28 seconds
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“Disc 1 Track 02. Continuation of Ricky Schwartz testimony to John Channon.,” The Archival Collections at the University of Hawaiʻi School of Law Library, accessed February 28, 2024, http://archives.law.hawaii.edu/items/show/19347.